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	<title>Comments on: Giants of Men</title>
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	<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/</link>
	<description>Fatherhood and natural parenting from the perspective of a tree-hugging dirt worshipper</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 05:23:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Flank</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-10402</link>
		<dc:creator>Flank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 May 2010 17:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-10402</guid>
		<description>Mr. Markham, I am sorry to hear about your loss.

However, what a great tribute this article is- reminds me somewhat of an article from Brett McKay&#039;s artofmanliness.com on &#039;finding your core values&#039; (though I must say your article struck a louder chord with me).

I&#039;m 21 and lost my grandfather to cancer a few years ago but I remember the principles that (although he never really spoke about) he lived by so emphatically and try to emulate them myself.

I often wonder, what is it about our grandparents&#039; era that seems so much simpler, that made men seem more, well, manly?! Was it war? Compulsory service? The absence of soul-sapping technologies? Maybe, but as a member of the (doomed?!) &#039;Generation Y&#039;, I hope that the values of our grandparents do not die with them and that we too can live everyday confident that we are &#039;doing the right thing&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Markham, I am sorry to hear about your loss.</p>
<p>However, what a great tribute this article is- reminds me somewhat of an article from Brett McKay&#8217;s artofmanliness.com on &#8216;finding your core values&#8217; (though I must say your article struck a louder chord with me).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m 21 and lost my grandfather to cancer a few years ago but I remember the principles that (although he never really spoke about) he lived by so emphatically and try to emulate them myself.</p>
<p>I often wonder, what is it about our grandparents&#8217; era that seems so much simpler, that made men seem more, well, manly?! Was it war? Compulsory service? The absence of soul-sapping technologies? Maybe, but as a member of the (doomed?!) &#8216;Generation Y&#8217;, I hope that the values of our grandparents do not die with them and that we too can live everyday confident that we are &#8216;doing the right thing&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle B</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-6657</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 18:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-6657</guid>
		<description>All this fine sentiment wasted on an America that practices the ethic-less new neo-con corporatist view that raping the next generation to age 40 for low wages then downsizing them to economic Hell and poverty for high profits is the right way to build a strong nation! Look at America&#039;s bottom line! Crashing through the gates of Hell with the dollar in fast pursuit as we speak! Is the formula wrong after all? Can there be wisdom and strength in older hands we did not value properly? Is ware-housing the Elderly the right thing to do? China grows stronger with the rest of Asia daily, and they value their elderly. America shrivels, look a Detroit City:
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2Nrlnk/exiledonline.com/slums-of-detroit-a-look-at-the-heart-of-americas-2nd-most-deserted-city
http://www.100abandonedhouses.com/
http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/index.html
http://www.jamesgriffioen.net/index.php?/prairies/feral-houses/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YdmLkDmjU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw&amp;NR=1&amp;feature=fvwp
Weep! Great buildings built by the strength of the backs of the now elderly, falling into disrespect! All that timber, never to grow on this continent again! We are so screwed in our sense of ethics, values, so doomed to wasting all that is of real value, including the admonitions of our Elderly! Sad America, Sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this fine sentiment wasted on an America that practices the ethic-less new neo-con corporatist view that raping the next generation to age 40 for low wages then downsizing them to economic Hell and poverty for high profits is the right way to build a strong nation! Look at America&#8217;s bottom line! Crashing through the gates of Hell with the dollar in fast pursuit as we speak! Is the formula wrong after all? Can there be wisdom and strength in older hands we did not value properly? Is ware-housing the Elderly the right thing to do? China grows stronger with the rest of Asia daily, and they value their elderly. America shrivels, look a Detroit City:<br />
<a href="http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2Nrlnk/exiledonline.com/slums-of-detroit-a-look-at-the-heart-of-americas-2nd-most-deserted-city" rel="nofollow">http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2Nrlnk/exiledonline.com/slums-of-detroit-a-look-at-the-heart-of-americas-2nd-most-deserted-city</a><br />
<a href="http://www.100abandonedhouses.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.100abandonedhouses.com/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/index.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.jamesgriffioen.net/index.php?/prairies/feral-houses/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jamesgriffioen.net/index.php?/prairies/feral-houses/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YdmLkDmjU" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8YdmLkDmjU</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw&#038;NR=1&#038;feature=fvwp" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw&#038;NR=1&#038;feature=fvwp</a><br />
Weep! Great buildings built by the strength of the backs of the now elderly, falling into disrespect! All that timber, never to grow on this continent again! We are so screwed in our sense of ethics, values, so doomed to wasting all that is of real value, including the admonitions of our Elderly! Sad America, Sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Markham</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-6466</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Markham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-6466</guid>
		<description>Thank you Amy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Amy!</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Jussel, Shaping Youth</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-6465</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Jussel, Shaping Youth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-6465</guid>
		<description>Derek, as I prepare to go visit my 86-y.o. DAD who exemplifies each of these values, I&#039;d be remiss if I didn&#039;t point out the elephant in the living room here, which is the obvious evolution of good men such as yourself who not only choose to walk through the world with mindfulness but also do so with emotive brilliance. 

Guys like Gavin H. @servantofchaos and Tom M. (The Good Men Project) and Danny B. and YOU are redefining masculinity minus the over-rated stoicism and that&#039;s wildly important as we progress toward humanity ascending. 

One of the BEST things of my father&#039;s aging/memory  frustrations has been seeing him grapple with his own mortality with a sincerity and genuine sense of being human that knocks him off the pillar both familial and societal pressures have placed him upon. 

That&#039;s huge. And necessary to see and to BE in order to achieve the intimacy so often lacking between dads and daughters of a certain generation. 

So thank YOU and your generation of men who dare to be real, be mindful, and be gentlemen of substance...you have much to teach the &#039;other men&#039; out there swept up in the media machine of misogynistic crud defining manhood by notches/scores/thuggery and bravado.  Onward, giants!
.-= Amy Jussel, Shaping Youth´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=10210&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sexy Broccoli, Saucy 6 Year Olds &amp; Why SexEd is a Must: SexTech Pt.3&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek, as I prepare to go visit my 86-y.o. DAD who exemplifies each of these values, I&#8217;d be remiss if I didn&#8217;t point out the elephant in the living room here, which is the obvious evolution of good men such as yourself who not only choose to walk through the world with mindfulness but also do so with emotive brilliance. </p>
<p>Guys like Gavin H. @servantofchaos and Tom M. (The Good Men Project) and Danny B. and YOU are redefining masculinity minus the over-rated stoicism and that&#8217;s wildly important as we progress toward humanity ascending. </p>
<p>One of the BEST things of my father&#8217;s aging/memory  frustrations has been seeing him grapple with his own mortality with a sincerity and genuine sense of being human that knocks him off the pillar both familial and societal pressures have placed him upon. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s huge. And necessary to see and to BE in order to achieve the intimacy so often lacking between dads and daughters of a certain generation. </p>
<p>So thank YOU and your generation of men who dare to be real, be mindful, and be gentlemen of substance&#8230;you have much to teach the &#8216;other men&#8217; out there swept up in the media machine of misogynistic crud defining manhood by notches/scores/thuggery and bravado.  Onward, giants!<br />
.-= Amy Jussel, Shaping Youth´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=10210" rel="nofollow">Sexy Broccoli, Saucy 6 Year Olds &amp; Why SexEd is a Must: SexTech Pt.3</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Markham</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-6464</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Markham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-6464</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Robin - you made me blush...

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Robin &#8211; you made me blush&#8230;</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Easton</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-6463</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Easton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-6463</guid>
		<description>Dear Derek, 

This moved me deeply. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s over simplified at all. In fact, I think that is what we all need to recesses: simple, solid, and real values. It was enriching reading this. Not only the realizations that hit you and you seem to embrace on a deep level, about soon being the head of the family and seeing your grandfather and other relatives more clearly, but that strong desire in you (which I&#039;ve seen so many times) to live a life from your heart. To live a life filled with harmony to others and Earth, a life of real value. You strike me as very earnest and genuine, both qualities that your grandfather had. 

It did me good to read this as I too believe in these almost organic or grounded values. They are part of what keeps me sane in world that appears to have lost all sense of &quot;true&quot; values, a world that has all but forgotten what is important. We&#039;ve forgotten to the point that more often than not we don&#039;t see our connection to the living planet (which we can&#039;t live without), we don&#039;t see our connection to each other or the &quot;real&quot; goodness around us. 

Unless we are constantly bombarding ourselves with TV, computer, iPod, cell phone and more we tend to feel like we are going crazy. To to let go, slow down, take time out from the bombardment to just &quot;be&quot;, and let peace, Nature, real connections with people and Life back into our hearts and souls is a HUGE step to remembering our values. 

I loved this article and see it as a beautiful reflection of YOU. I think you are ALREADY leaving a deeply precious legacy for generations to come, and will also make a very remarkable head of the family. I am proud of you and thank you for choosing to live consciously. You make my world a better place too. 

Thank you and hugs, 
Robin
.-= Robin Easton´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://nakedineden.com/nakedinedenblog/what-does-naked-in-eden-mean/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What Does “Naked in Eden” Mean?&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Derek, </p>
<p>This moved me deeply. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s over simplified at all. In fact, I think that is what we all need to recesses: simple, solid, and real values. It was enriching reading this. Not only the realizations that hit you and you seem to embrace on a deep level, about soon being the head of the family and seeing your grandfather and other relatives more clearly, but that strong desire in you (which I&#8217;ve seen so many times) to live a life from your heart. To live a life filled with harmony to others and Earth, a life of real value. You strike me as very earnest and genuine, both qualities that your grandfather had. </p>
<p>It did me good to read this as I too believe in these almost organic or grounded values. They are part of what keeps me sane in world that appears to have lost all sense of &#8220;true&#8221; values, a world that has all but forgotten what is important. We&#8217;ve forgotten to the point that more often than not we don&#8217;t see our connection to the living planet (which we can&#8217;t live without), we don&#8217;t see our connection to each other or the &#8220;real&#8221; goodness around us. </p>
<p>Unless we are constantly bombarding ourselves with TV, computer, iPod, cell phone and more we tend to feel like we are going crazy. To to let go, slow down, take time out from the bombardment to just &#8220;be&#8221;, and let peace, Nature, real connections with people and Life back into our hearts and souls is a HUGE step to remembering our values. </p>
<p>I loved this article and see it as a beautiful reflection of YOU. I think you are ALREADY leaving a deeply precious legacy for generations to come, and will also make a very remarkable head of the family. I am proud of you and thank you for choosing to live consciously. You make my world a better place too. </p>
<p>Thank you and hugs,<br />
Robin<br />
.-= Robin Easton´s last blog ..<a href="http://nakedineden.com/nakedinedenblog/what-does-naked-in-eden-mean/" rel="nofollow">What Does “Naked in Eden” Mean?</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Brown</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 17:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-207</guid>
		<description>This is a wonderful post, Derek, and thank you for introducing me to it.

Your grandpa sounds like he was a wonderful guy. If times were different, perhaps he&#039;d have been one of the leaders that we see building paths online?

There does seem to be a gap between generations where we lost direction. It&#039;s coming back - I see it every day where people stand up to make a difference. But it&#039;s a slow haul - at least it&#039;s started, though, and that&#039;s the main thing.

Thanks again for an insightful and open post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a wonderful post, Derek, and thank you for introducing me to it.</p>
<p>Your grandpa sounds like he was a wonderful guy. If times were different, perhaps he&#8217;d have been one of the leaders that we see building paths online?</p>
<p>There does seem to be a gap between generations where we lost direction. It&#8217;s coming back &#8211; I see it every day where people stand up to make a difference. But it&#8217;s a slow haul &#8211; at least it&#8217;s started, though, and that&#8217;s the main thing.</p>
<p>Thanks again for an insightful and open post.</p>
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		<title>By: gregorylent</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>gregorylent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-104</guid>
		<description>values are hardwired .. everybody knows what is right .. doing it? the lesson every generation has to learn for itself .. life is a school</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>values are hardwired .. everybody knows what is right .. doing it? the lesson every generation has to learn for itself .. life is a school</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Bisch</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Bisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Very insightful and principled article. It is true in all respects. I have struggled to acquire these traits through many errors. My grandfather never spoke to me. My father died when I was 14. It was only in becoming a Christian that I began to see these things, yet since most of my Christian peers had similar life experiences, the simple truths that you have expressed were rarely found. I believe the Depression steered many of our elders into a sober financial life. The rest of what you have described, though Biblical in substance, was transferred through generations in a tight family unity with strong values and honesty, usually without the presence of excess finances.

Without male role models to influence these principles and virtues the learning curve can be long and painful through much trial and error.

Derek, you are very blessed that your grandfather has left you a legacy from which to build the foundation of your life and instill good values in your own children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very insightful and principled article. It is true in all respects. I have struggled to acquire these traits through many errors. My grandfather never spoke to me. My father died when I was 14. It was only in becoming a Christian that I began to see these things, yet since most of my Christian peers had similar life experiences, the simple truths that you have expressed were rarely found. I believe the Depression steered many of our elders into a sober financial life. The rest of what you have described, though Biblical in substance, was transferred through generations in a tight family unity with strong values and honesty, usually without the presence of excess finances.</p>
<p>Without male role models to influence these principles and virtues the learning curve can be long and painful through much trial and error.</p>
<p>Derek, you are very blessed that your grandfather has left you a legacy from which to build the foundation of your life and instill good values in your own children.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Scribner</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Scribner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-102</guid>
		<description>Those are great ideals to live by and to pass on to our children - whom, of course, are the true measure of our parenting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are great ideals to live by and to pass on to our children &#8211; whom, of course, are the true measure of our parenting.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-101</guid>
		<description>Derek...again: I am sorry for your loss and feel your pain.

My grandparents have been gone for a long time.  But your blog post is so &#039;timeless&#039;.  We have become so caught up in the &quot;here and now&quot; that we&#039;ve forgotten the &quot;then and there&quot;.

Values have changed: now it&#039;s &quot;live for the day&quot;.  What about the consequences for the decisions and actions we make and take?  When did that all fly out the window?    I think Madison Avenue has taken us down the pea patch.

Unfortunately, some of us parents have gone along with the kids to be sucked into the instant gratification era.  We need a shock of reality.  Perhaps that&#039;s what this economic mess is all about.  A &quot;hello?&quot; to all of us to stop and think about how we got here.

Great post my friend.  Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Derek&#8230;again: I am sorry for your loss and feel your pain.</p>
<p>My grandparents have been gone for a long time.  But your blog post is so &#8216;timeless&#8217;.  We have become so caught up in the &#8220;here and now&#8221; that we&#8217;ve forgotten the &#8220;then and there&#8221;.</p>
<p>Values have changed: now it&#8217;s &#8220;live for the day&#8221;.  What about the consequences for the decisions and actions we make and take?  When did that all fly out the window?    I think Madison Avenue has taken us down the pea patch.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, some of us parents have gone along with the kids to be sucked into the instant gratification era.  We need a shock of reality.  Perhaps that&#8217;s what this economic mess is all about.  A &#8220;hello?&#8221; to all of us to stop and think about how we got here.</p>
<p>Great post my friend.  Great post.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-100</guid>
		<description>Simply the best article I have read in a long time. Thank you my friend. You are a good man.

Adam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simply the best article I have read in a long time. Thank you my friend. You are a good man.</p>
<p>Adam</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Novey</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Novey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-99</guid>
		<description>Some great thoughts here. The wisdom of our elders is always a resource that sadly few of us take time to appreciate to its fullest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some great thoughts here. The wisdom of our elders is always a resource that sadly few of us take time to appreciate to its fullest.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Lance</title>
		<link>http://naturalpapa.com/fatherhood/giants-of-men/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Lance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://naturalpapa.com/?p=274#comment-98</guid>
		<description>I lost my grandmother this fall. She was 92.  My grandfather is my last remaining grandparent, and he turns 90 in September.  He just got out of the hospital, thankfully he is fine. He is concerned he won&#039;t be able to do push ups now. I just hope he hangs on until we all go to see him for his 90th birthday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lost my grandmother this fall. She was 92.  My grandfather is my last remaining grandparent, and he turns 90 in September.  He just got out of the hospital, thankfully he is fine. He is concerned he won&#8217;t be able to do push ups now. I just hope he hangs on until we all go to see him for his 90th birthday.</p>
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